Why Nigerians are angry —Yerima Shettima

•North not completely against  Tinubu 

By Chioma Gabriel, Editor Special Features

Yerima Shettima is the Convener of the Northern stakeholders consultative initiative, an influential socio-cultural and political organisation representing the interests of youths in Northern Nigeria.

He is an active political figure in Kaduna State. He declared an ambition to run for the Kaduna Central Senatorial District seat under the All Progressives Congress (APC), advocating strongly against the imposition of “anointed candidates” and promoting internal party democracy, but later stepped down for the current person occupying that position. In this interview, he speaks about 2027 and what Nigerians should expect.

Politicking has commenced in earnest, and intra- and interparty activities are going on. What do you see when you look at the future?

Well, oftentimes we go into problems when it is electioneering periods because we like politicians who are very consistent, we like politicians who believe in ideology. And that is why oftentimes when we are in a period like this, you begin to see that we are neither here nor there, and that’s why we will keep getting problems. If we run our politics based on ideology, I think there shouldn’t be problems compared to other countries, because a party is built on ideology. And no matter what, no matter how it goes, whether in favour of individuals or not, they remain consistent and remain with the party. But the case of Nigeria is the reverse, and that is why we keep getting this problem. That’s why even when they get to power, you begin to ask yourself, are they supposed to be there because they have no business being there? So, it is always the case.

Nigeria is  preparing for elections, but we are not even sure whether there will be an election or not…

 I don’t know what will stop the election, after all, the timetable is out, and situations like these are not new to us in Nigeria. Oftentimes, there is always panic and wrong imaginations that there will be an election or no election. But, certainly, I have no doubt in my mind that the timetable is out, and definitely there would be an election after all. We are still working on primaries; we just did the gubernatorial primary. Campaigns will begin soon, and each and every person will begin to move on the streets to campaign and begin to woo people, and get ready for the electioneering next year. So, I do not see anything that would stop the election. It has always been so; it is not new to us as a people.

The way things are going, many Nigerians think the current administration is pushing the country towards a one-party state, and opposition is scattered

Most of those who constitute the opposition are so desperate, and that is why they keep getting it wrong. It is not the responsibility of the APC or any party to help the opposition build their homes. So, if they choose out of greed to become more desperate and do what they are doing, so be it. For me, I am not seeing anything wrong in what is going on. I am a pro democrat, and I strongly believe there must be strong opposition. But it is so sad that most of these guys are so desperate for power and none of them wants to step down for anybody. As a result of that, you see them going from left to right, getting confused and leaving one party for another. Some of them do not even bother to check the legitimacy of some of the platforms they go to, only when they get there, somebody would now realise that the political party they are into has litigations, or there is one problem or the other, and as a result of that, they lose it all because they are so desperate. They are too much in a hurry to do this. I do not think anybody should morally blame APC or Tinubu for the problem the opposition is having, for not putting their house in order. I don’t think it is correct. So, if at the end of the day, out of their desperation, and that’s what they want to do, and APC has the whole vote, so be it. Nobody should be blamed for that; rather, they should blame themselves for that. I am an advocate of processes, democratic processes. I am of the opinion that we should have a stronger opposition even when I align myself with the APC, but how is that our business if they choose not to do the right thing?

Many believe that the greatest problem we have with democracy is not just the politicians, but INEC and the Judiciary. INEC and the Judiciary are seen to have compromised

We have problems in our system, systemic problems. Our institutions are not functioning properly, and oftentimes, things are built around individuals. And if things continue to go that way, we will continue to have the same result, and that is why some of us strongly believe that the institutions must be strengthened to do the needful. There are three arms of government: the judiciary, the legislature, and the executive. The three are different; in this level, each operates independently. But in the case of Nigeria, because there are certain things that are not well fixed, the institutions are not well strengthened, and that is why you begin to see certain compromises in some cases.

You made reference to other past experiences; it boils down to the same thing, and that is why I strongly believe that we need to strengthen our institutions. And I’m sure this cannot continue to keep coming. With time, I am sure those things will be strengthened, and it will become a story. In some countries, they have also experienced the same thing, and at a point, they realised that this cannot continue, so they put their house in order.

I strongly believe that with time, Nigeria will also overcome this challenge, and we will get it right. We must continue to insist, we must continue to advocate that the institutions must be structured properly so that each and every one of them can operate independently, that includes even the electoral empire, that is the INEC we are talking about, it is just institutional issues

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The current Senate and House of Representatives are seen as rubber stamps; they are not deliberating on anything; they are just doing what the executive wants

I do not think it is about rubber-stamping, but that the National Assembly, in its own wisdom, decides that things must work for the country, and they must be seen to work together. To share the same principle does not in any way mean they are rubber-stamp. In some cases, they don’t agree; don’t forget this National Assembly comprises other opposition parties. These opposition parties, in most cases, make an input and sometimes they all agree in principle on a particular issue, not minding where they come from as different political parties or as perceived to be in opposition. They decide their things, and they work it that way, and there are no bottlenecks as such. Things are moving for the country, and that does not in any way translate to the fact that they have been compromised and they are rubber-stamped. I don’t share that sentiment at all. Do we want them to stand and begin to stagger at the expense of the collective interests of the country, so that we will remain in one place and nothing will come meaningfully for the country? I do not think that is correct. So, in their own wisdom, if they realise that there is a need for them to shift ground for things to flow in the best interest of the country, there is nothing wrong in that. I think they are doing that.

Nigeria has been borrowing money to the extent that Nigerians had to go online to protest to the World Bank that it should stop giving Nigerians money, which are looted…

 I don’t believe that they just bring the money and share it among themselves. Don’t forget that this country could not move an inch if there are no funds. And don’t forget that we have found ourselves in a situation where this country secured a lot of loans; servicing the debt and so on and so forth are one of our major challenges. And of course, it is not a bad idea if the government goes out to take a loan in the best interest of the country. Don’t forget, work is ongoing; look at our road networks. Look at what is happening between Lagos and Calabar, look at what is happening between Lagos and Sokoto. Look at the networks. These things require money. And where is this money going to come from? Don’t forget, the last government had almost run down the country’s economy completely, and this government has just come to the fore in the last three years. They need to go on loan, they need to survive, they need to do a lot of things.

The government is embarking on white elephant projects that consume so much money and provide opportunities for them to take out money and do whatever they like

Is it better to bring the money and just share with people to just eat without putting infrastructure in place? Or is it better to have a network that will boost our economy, so people can move goods from Calabar to Lagos? People can move from Kaduna to Lagos smoothly without any problem. Is it not better? Is it better to share the money for people to just eat?

Nobody is talking about sharing the money with the people

So what? What is that thing?

Nigerians are poor; they are hungry. Currently, there is so much insecurity. What is that?

When it comes to insecurity, there are factors to that; some of us keep advocating that there is a need for us to decentralise the security structure. I am one of the advocates for state policing or community policing, and I think gradually, we are getting to that because I can see that the present body language is going towards that, and I am sure we shall overcome that. Secondly, you do not expect our population, which is over 250 million Nigerians; you expect that less than two million security forces can eliminate insecurity. It is not realistic; we need more manpower. Now, considering the situation of this security threat, it is a global thing. All over the world, there is a problem. Just that everybody has their own style of committing criminality. But the issue of insecurity is global. Only a few days ago, we saw how a Nigerian strike brought down one of the strongest ISIS leaders in this country. It is commendable that the Nigerian armed forces have done well through their intelligence gathering, and that must be seen as encouraging. Don’t forget that despite the problems they are facing, despite the poor packaging given to our Nigerian armed forces because of the situation as it stands today, they are still working against all odds. So for me, we should continue to encourage them while we begin to call the government to prepare very good packages and ensure that they are well taken care of, them and their families, so that they can do better. It is a process, it is ongoing.

Every year, we budget humongous amounts on security, but you don’t see it reflected in the lives of the soldiers or the security forces.

Despite the fact that we face this problem of corruption here and there, people are tapping money from everywhere, and little of it goes to the proper channel. I think that’s an area where we also love to add a voice that the government must be seen to be up and doing. They must be determined to do more to ensure that once money is allocated to certain agencies, the money must go to them, and they must be monitored on how that money is being spent, so that at the end of the day, we can overcome this challenge of money not getting to the right source. It’s not new to us, but we must insist that the right thing be done.

Sometimes, the kind of thing that is happening and the way Nigerians are keeping quiet is like they cast a spell on us. No serious opposition. APC is  fighting over N800 billion, which they say is Nigeria’s money, and they want to use it on the election

This issue of Governor Uzodimma’s N800 billion still remains an allegation. It is not clear. I do not think I want to talk much about that. But if it is found wanting, there’s nothing wrong in reining him in. Though he’s covered by immunity, he will soon be going as a governor. He can be probed. The party or the president can take decisive action. They can change him. Someone should take over from him because of the abuse of trust while they probe him. At the end of the day, if he is found wanting, he should be probed. For me, it still remains an allegation because I’m not in the picture clearly. I don’t think I can make much out of that for now. We keep reading things online, and sometimes you find it difficult to differentiate what is real and what is not true. But I’m sure within them and the governors that are in the system, they will speak more on that because they have more insight than I have. But I’m also saying that if he is found wanting, they should bring him out and probe him. And if it’s not, then there’s no reason to begin to make stories out of nothing.

Why did you withdraw from the primaries?

I withdrew from the primaries because the party became supreme. As far as I’m concerned, I stood my ground, and we came to the primary. But because I also understand that there are certain internal arrangements of the party, and I was advised to step aside, and I did. Because the person I withdrew for was a comrade, a friend, and a very close person to me. At the same time, the governor also happens to be a friend of mine. When they advised that there is a need for me to withdraw, while I keep rising up and support the party to do the needful, I felt I can do more again, and I still have time, and I’m still young. This is my first attempt. There’s nothing wrong with continuing to support the party because the party is supreme. I respect my leaders in the party, and I respect the president. There was intervention coming from the president and even the governor, and I yielded to the advice. Besides, we can still do better outside of being a senator. I can still give my support, and that’s why I withdrew voluntarily without anybody compelling me. It was voluntary, and I decided to do it. I believe I will do more to support the party. There are times for everything.

Why is the North not happy with Tinubu?

I am not aware that the North is not happy with Tinubu, but I’m aware there are certain interests that feel they didn’t get what they wanted. Their personal interest was not covered; they went around to abuse the minds of so many people in the northern parts of the country just to get what they wanted. Don’t forget, only a few years ago, we had a president from the northern extraction who had been there for like eight years, and he hasn’t done anything good for the northern part of the country. And when Tinubu came on board, he inherited that anger and the problems. And having done that also, they succeeded in poisoning the minds of some individuals against the government of the day, without reflecting on the genesis of the problem. Some of us who are enlightened, some of us who understand what is going on, we also know that the government is trying, and there are a lot of things ongoing. Just that in most cases, some of those who are opportuned to be there, who are supposed to be saddled with the responsibility of telling Nigerians, telling the northern part of the country what this government has done, remain muted. There are not enough, which is why some of us will have to come to the fore and explain to our people, and they will understand. I’m sure it’s just a matter of time; it has always been so, and there is nothing new about it. But I also know that nobody can say that the North is totally against Tinubu. I strongly believe he is trying, and we will support him to do more.

You withdrew from the race. Is it not one of the pointers to the fact that the system chooses who it wants, that we are heading towards a dictatorship and one-party state?

My case is not that. My case is with understanding. I was not compelled, I wasn’t forced to do that, and I wasn’t blackmailed. But I saw reasons why I should step aside. I spoke to my leaders. I spoke to my stakeholders. I consulted widely. And the party has already done something on the ground.

I saw reasons why I should withdraw, and I did that. And I’m sure I can still come back again to contest in the next election. That’s not the end of the road.

When you look at some of these disagreements of some parts of the North, is there something that the North would have the president do?

The only major challenge right now is the issue of insecurity, the kidnappings and terrorism that are ongoing. That is almost everywhere in the country. A classic example is that of the southwest, which is even hitting more, and some parts of north-central and northeast.

It’s everywhere now. It’s almost everywhere, even in the southeast. Exactly. So, I think the government should stand their ground and do the needful. But we need them to do more. Once we have this issue of insecurity coming down drastically, it can’t be stopped completely. Once the crime rate is lower, you can be rest assured that people will come out and go to their farms and do other things.

Don’t forget we are into more farming than other parts of the country. And once that is done, I’m sure there will be calmness, and the people will be normal. But when they cannot go to their farms, there is no level playground for them to do the needful, go out, and do their day-to-day activities. Of course, people are bound to be angry and frustrated, and they can react.

But I think if there is anything the government can do now is to look at the insecurity angle of it and do the needful.

Nigerians are uncomfortable with the so-called reintegration of terrorists into the system. Some of them were made to join the army, and some ended up going back to terrorism

It should not be encouraged. I am against it, I do not think it is right in the name of doing it, rehabilitation, going by what the government is saying, if it is true. I do not think it is correct to involve a terrorist in the military. Sometimes, some of these kidnappers, not only the kidnappers, but even the terrorists, are coerced into joining them, not because they want to. If they identify those ones, they can be rehabilitated. But the case where you pack almost all of them and you say you are rehabilitating them, and now you bring them back to society, and you also find a job and give them. When those who are victims are not considered a priority, then it gives me a headache, a problem. I don’t understand that mathematics and how they arrive at that. But I am one of those who do not believe that they should be allowed to come back, in the name of rehabilitation, to society. They should be kept in a jungle and let them face the music so that at the end of the day, it will serve as a deterrent for others not to also get involved in it. But this so-called rehabilitation, I don’t think I believe in it, and I don’t think I like it personally.

Do we need Donald Trump to come and help Nigeria fight insecurity?

Nigeria is a sovereign nation. We should address our internal issues without any foreign power coming in to do it. We can seek support, but not by allowing them to come and do it for us. I don’t share that sentiment. I believe we are a sovereign nation, and we can address our issues. If Americans are willing and Trump wants to help Nigeria, he should give us more equipment, more things. At least we are advanced technology-wise. There are certain things they can give us technologically, and they can advance our cause here in the country so that we can get this thing right and clear this mess. But I don’t think he should be the one to champion our cause for us, as if we are still a Banana Republic. I don’t share that sentiment; we are not a Banana Republic. We are a sovereign nation.

The Electoral Act is not what many believe it should be. There is so much controversy; some issues  are not resolved

Laws are meant to be amended at any given time. And I understand that only yesterday or two days ago, whether yesterday or the day before, there were some rulings by courts against the Electoral Act, and certain things were put. I don’t know, maybe there is likely going to be an appeal from INEC or individuals. But I’m sure laws are meant to be amended. And that’s why there is a provision for amendments. There is no country in the world where any document is made to be perfect. Laws are meant to be amended. No law is perfect at all. So, this is an issue that is ongoing. And I’m sure with time, we will address those issues, those challenges, and things will be put well. So, if we find any grey area, I’m sure those who are involved will definitely go to seek interpretations and do the needful; it is ongoing.

What do you think of Peter Obi? Doesn’t the North have anything against him?

Personally, I don’t have anything against him. Peter Obi is a Nigerian, and he should contest.

Those who believe in his ideology can go for him. After all, he has fans in other parts of the country, too. He has followers. I’m not against him at all.

So, you foresee a peaceful election, a normal election?

There is no way you can see an election being 100 percent peaceful. There must be some grey areas.

There must always be a problem, but just that some problems are bigger than others. But there is nowhere in the world where elections have been conducted so peacefully, 100 percent. No. There will be some areas where there’ll be an uprising. There are some areas where there’ll be protests. There are some areas where some lives might even be lost. But God forbid. I pray God comes to our aid to intervene, while the government must also be ready and put more foot on the ground to ensure that anybody who is found to be troublesome should be brought to book.

But, definitely, you know, our Nigerian politicians are very desperate; even when there are no problems, they will create problems, for them to find their way to power because of their desperation. So, I pray we overcome these challenges, and I pray something better comes.

But this is a very hard period for us, a very challenging period. Once the election is over, you see everything goes down as if it rains, and you get everywhere calm.

A lot of people are already crying foul, even before the primaries, during the primaries, and then after the primaries…

People must always cry when they lose because some of them are bad losers. But when it goes their way, they’ll be happy, jubilating, and say, God has come to their aid. They’ll be going for Thanksgiving and so on and so forth. But when they lose, they won’t go for Thanksgiving. They’ll begin to cry foul. That’s how it works. This is politics. This is democracy. And there are two things that come with it. Either you gain, you win, or you lose, and people must have faith.

Let us be committed. Let us support the government, and I’m sure the government meant well. Tinubu meant well for the country. Let us give him all the support so that at the end of the day, we’ll have those things we look forward to seeing in the country.

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