State of the Nation: Ethnicity, religion destroying our democracy — Shehu Sani

…North benefited most under Buhari, not marginalised

…Why national conference won’t save Nigeria

…Yorubanisation, Hausanisation, Fulanisation appointments wrong

…Opposition lacks credibility, filled with past failed leaders

…Obi, Atiku, Tinubu not ideologically different

…Why Presidency should remain in South in 2027

…Nigeria needs justice, not endless conferences

By Chioma Gabriel, Editor, Special Features

Senator Shehu Sani contested and won the Kaduna Central Senatorial District on the platform of the All Progressives Congress in 2015. He later decamped to PRP and lost his senatorial position. He is the President of the Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria, CRCN, and the Chairman of Hand-in-Hand, Africa. In this encounter, he answers questions on the state of the nation and its politics among others.

On allegations of some northerners that the North is being marginalised by President Bola Tinubu

First of all, the issue they are discussing is related to political appointments and projects. And statistically, it is not correct. Firstly, when considering federal allocations, the North has the highest number of states and local governments, and as such, it receives more from federal allocations than other regions.  On political appointments, late former President Muhammadu Buhari did worse than Tinubu in terms of nepotism, ethnicity, and religion because most of the people who were appointed to hold political positions under Buhari were mostly northerners. We have not forgotten how it used to be, Chief of Army Staff, Chief of Air Staff, Chief of Defense Staff, DSS controller, Immigration Controller, Prisons Controller, Controller of Customs Service,  and Police IG were northerners.

However, if you are a political leader, and you swear an allegiance, an oath to be just and fair, you should be fair to all parts of Nigeria.

But the issue that northerners are raising is something that they kept quiet about when one of their sons was the president of this country.

And about projects, it is not true that the South is currently benefiting more than the North. Under Buhari, the North-West and the South-West have benefited more in projects and political appointments. And under Tinubu, the North-West and the South-West have benefited more in projects and political appointments. If there is any region that should talk of marginalisation, I think it should be the southeastern part of Nigeria, which has been systematically marginalised under Buhari up to the present date.

So you think that the Yorubanisation of appointments is normal?

Yorubanisation of appointments came after the Hausanisation and Fulanisation of political appointments. Fulanisation and Hausanisation were bad, and Yorubanisation is also bad. We cannot justify Hausanisation and Fulanisation, and Northernisation. We northerners kept quiet when it was happening during the Buhari era, only for us to speak when Yorubanisation is happening.

On dangers of ethnicisation of appointments to nation building

Well, it it is a trend in African political philosophy. When people find themselves in the position of authority or power, they find themselves trying to populate the place with people from their own ethnic backgrounds, even up to the presidency. There was a time we had a lady heading a federal parastatal. She employed people and made sure that most of the people who were employed were of her own tribe. And she was Igbo. So, we are faced with this situation: When an Hausa man heads a commission, he makes sure that Hausa are the ones who populate it. The same thing with Yoruba. What is happening today, as you see it, is not different from what was happening yesterday. But the point is that we should build a nation where people are appointed into public office positions based on merit and equity, and justice to all ethnic groups, because that is why we are called a country. If one tribe or one ethnicity or one region dominates, it creates a loss of confidence in that nation and is also a seed for a crisis for that nation. You can’t force people to accept being patriotic in a society where their ethnicity and  religious identity are a stigma and a source of discrimination against them.

That means the issue should be addressed, and that is why people are calling for a national conference…

There is no conference that will address the problem of Nigeria. We know the right thing to do. We know everything has been delivered. You think of a conference, which conference in Nigeria? Which problem has the conference ever solved? Any person who is appointing people from his ethnic group or allocating projects to his own people knows the difference between right and wrong. He just decided to do what is wrong. Nigeria has a law. We have an institution, but we decided not to abide by it. The Federal Character Commission was an institution created to ensure equity and justice in terms of employment and appointments in political offices. But we decided not to abide by it. So, which conference will bring angels and saints to Nigeria?

A conference is not going to change anything. We all know what is right. We all know what is wrong. Political elites in Nigeria are simply not interested. It’s just like electoral reforms. Every four years, there will be an electoral reform, but the electoral system remains one that is never reformed. If you bring a computer for elections, those who do a re-election will study their computer and make sure that they tamper with it.

So,  we need a national culture, a national orientation for ethics in this country. We cannot continue to organise conferences that are not achieving results. All the conferences we have organised, which one have we implemented?

Look at even the case of the Oronsaye Report, saying we should trim federal agencies from 800 to 200. Up till today, it has become impossible to do. We are still not doing what we need to do as a country.

On worsening poverty despite huge funds spent on poverty alleviation

Well, that is the failure of the system. We are yet to apply our resources for the betterment of the lives of our people. If you continue to have a corrupt elite who will always feed on any system and any policy and programme of the government, the nation will never move forward.

On poverty being worse under Tinubu’s administration compared to Buhari’s

You know that the poverty under Buhari was more than what we had under Jonathan. So, if you talk about Buhari, remember that under Buhari, there was a report, a credible international report, that over 160 million people were living below the poverty line. The removal of the petrol subsidy now aggravated the poverty situation in the country. The country’s resources were channelled to sub-national states. And it is the responsibility of the states to use such resources to address the problems of their own people. 

It is a fact of economics that if you remove a subsidy, the prices of goods will naturally go up. And the good thing about Mr. President is that during the election, he said he would remove the subsidy. And they voted for him. If I say I will remove the subsidy, and you hear me and you vote for me, so what will happen?

However, we must also take cognizance that the government must be ready to address the problem of poverty in this country. If not, there will certainly be a social upheaval. Reform should come with a human face and should address the problems of today and not just of tomorrow or next tomorrow, because economics should be about people, about the survival of people because people must live, and survive to enjoy the benefit of economic reforms.

But they should have put some cushion on the effect before removing it…

The cushion effect that we have been doing is that of sharing rice and beans to people, which is not going to take you to anywhere. If they give you half a bag of rice, what is going to happen with the school fees that were increased for children? What is going to happen with your rent that has been increased? What is going to happen with the electricity and water bills? What is going to happen with the foodstuffs you’re going to buy in the market? Or are you just going to eat rice and beans? So, the point is that the system must adjust itself to the level we can now have things that are affordable for people. Increasing wages is one. And secondly, try and see that some of these essential things are produced locally and are made available for people. We import most of the things in this country. We import cream, flowers, rice, meat and milk. All these things are what our soil can grow and produce. This is the situation we find ourselves in.

But the opposition and many Nigerians think the government is not taking care of the people but itself…

The opposition must speak, but unfortunately, we don’t have any credible opposition today because most of them were part and parcel of the destruction that led us to where we are today. If you are looking for people who destroyed Nigeria under the PDP 16 years ago, they are in the opposition. If you are looking for people who destroyed Nigeria under APC since 2015-2023, they are also in the opposition. So, most of these people who are the authors and architects of the situation we find ourselves in today are the opposition you are talking about.

But the government must listen to the cries of Nigerians, the ordinary Nigerians who have a country that is endowed with all the resources. Our people should not be suffering. If people in Kuwait, in Saudi Arabia, and Qatar are not suffering and are among the wealthiest in the world, there is no reason for Nigeria, which has such kind of resources to be in poverty. We are such a blessed nation. All these rich Arab countries here, from Saudi Arabia to Kuwait to Qatar to Bahrain, don’t even have water in their countries. They don’t even have arable land. They have hostile weather. But God gave us oil. He gave us water. He gave us rain. He gave us rivers. He gave us arable land. But yet, this is the situation we’re in. There should be no excuse for people to be suffering in Nigeria. What needs to be done has to be done. As far as reform is concerned, people should not continue to suffer eternally. The reform should produce fruits that will ease the burden and hardship, and suffering in the lives of our people.

From what you said about opposition, you don’t seem to see the ADC as a formidable opposition

What is a formidable opposition? They are people who were part and parcel of the destruction of this country. Is that what you call opposition? Someone who was a governor for eight years, a minister for eight years, and he’s a member of the parliament for eight years, he spent a whole period of Nigeria’s transition programme in government, and because he’s out of power, you call him formidable opposition? What is formidable there? What is credible among them there? But I can agree with you that the cries of Nigerians are genuine and should be addressed. We cannot talk about the people who led us to where we are today. Or because they are out of power for two years, they felt they should go to their own regions and incite ethnic and religious hatred and ethnic, religious, and tribal sentiments to target the government.

What did their government do? Where were all these things that happened under their government? Buhari’s government was a corrupt government. There’s no doubt about it. There was an opportunity to address the problem of this country at that very time, including insecurity, but they were not addressed.

On perception that among the opposition, Mr  Peter Obi is different

Yes, but Peter Obi is one of the members of Nigeria’s political elite. He has been a governor for eight years. And he has an organic support among people, mostly from the southeastern part of Nigeria. And he is not a bad person. But the point is that he is part and parcel of Nigeria’s political elite. There is no doubt about it. If Nigerians look at them all and believe that he’s someone whom they can elect, that is left for Nigerians. But it does not mean that he does not carry the stains and the stigma of being a member of the ruling elite. And if you look at it, when people say Peter Obi, what is the philosophical foundation of Peter Obi? Peter Obi is a hardcore capitalist who believes in the World Bank, privatization, IMF, removal of subsidies, and devaluation. The difference between Peter Obi, Atiku, and Tinubu is not philosophical or ideological. It’s not that Peter Obi is a Marxist. He is never. It’s not that Peter Obi is a welfarist. He is never. All the philosophical ideals and fundamental ideology of this government and that of Atiku share a common perspective. People are only differentiating others because of their names. and claims. But look at it clearly. What is the difference between A and B? The fundamental difference between A and B is the philosophy and the ideology they stand for. And all of them are on the same ideological platform. There is no doubt about it. The only thing that would be said about it is that he has not held a national position. But he has held a position as the governor of Anambra State. And then, you ask the people of Anambra, has he been able to achieve what he wants to achieve? They use your own background to judge you for what you are going to do ahead and in the future. So, the difference between him and them is more of name and more of perhaps superficial ideas, but not of ideology.

But Atiku is coming back

No, no, no. The 2027 election should be left for southerners to contest. That’s my belief. Because Buhari was there for eight years, it is only morally right that the South completes eight years, so leadership comes back to the North. Even the opposition should field a southern candidate and not a northerner. Northerners should allow the South to complete its eight years and revert the position in 2031. That is the ideal thing to do. We need this kind of gentlemanly acceptance and agreement for us to be able to sustain Nigeria as one country. That is my own view. People like Tinubu, Peter Obi, and other southerners can contest elections if they want to, and I think everyone should agree that it could be for four years, and then the power comes to the north. We shouldn’t toy with our national unity.

Two years into this administration, amid hardship, they’re already talking about 2027 polls. Is it not too early?

It is very unfortunate that in a country like ours, we focus more on politics than on governance. I can assure you, if Peter Obi becomes the president of Nigeria today, he will only be allowed one term, and he will be accused of appointing only the Igbo in all positions, and he will be fought. If Atiku becomes president of Nigeria, he will only be there for one or two years, and he will be accused of the same issue, and there will be a battle.

The opposition against Tinubu now is coming from parts of the North and south-eastern parts of the country because it’s not from those parts of the country that Tinubu comes from.

When Buhari was there, the opposition was coming from the other side. Nigeria is a country where you will face more opposition from other regions rather than your own, because people are always aligning with their tribesmen. And that is one of the problems we have in this country. It’s just like when Jonathan was president, you can’t insult him, you can’t attack him if you are from his side of the country. And that is the situation we find ourselves in.

People blame the problem of democracy on the INEC, the Judiciary, and the National Assembly…

Like I told you earlier, there is no national conference that will address the power problem in Nigeria. If we want to do what is right, we will do it. Some institutions are seen not to be doing well at home but are doing well overseas. We complain about INEC, the judiciary, and the National Assembly, but some things are working well in Nigeria.

For example, Nigerian banks are credible in Nigeria in all of West Africa, and in the whole world. And these are banks  presided over by Nigerians. You can see Nigerian entertainment industry is gaining ground in Africa. It has dominated Africa and is making waves in the whole world. The Nigerian religious industry, whether it’s Christian or Muslim, is also making roads outside of Nigeria. Nigeria’s sportsmen and women are achieving medals across the world. So, if we want to do things right, we can do things right.

 If we do not want to do things right, we will not do things right. And it is better as a country, there is no better people to set an example for good governance other than the president, his cabinet, the members of the National Assembly, and people holding positions of authority and power.

If you tell people to make sacrifices, and you are living a luxurious life, and you are living lavishly, spending money anyhow, while people are suffering, nobody is going to believe you in terms of making any sacrifices. It is for us as a country to ask ourselves, where do we want to go in the next 10, 20, 30 years? What country do we want to leave for the next  generation? These are questions we need to answer. If we don’t answer, then we have ourselves to blame. Look at it, in 2000, the national population was over 120 million. Now, it’s over 250 million. In only 25 years, we have added over 120 million people to our own population. If we continue at this pace, without making provision for the generations that are coming, the country will be in turmoil.

Where is Sudan today? Where is Somalia today? Where are they? You see, I have learned a lesson about their situation.

Buhari was a former military general who became president, and everybody believed that he would address all the problems of the country, including insecurity, but where are we today?

Are you comparing Nigeria with Somalia and Sudan?

I’m making a negative example of Somalia and Sudan. And there’s no way you can say that Somalia and Sudan are better than Nigeria. When you can sit down in Lagos, you are calling me and I’m conducting an interview, you cannot do that in these countries. There is insecurity in Nigeria, but it is restricted to a certain part of the country. No matter what anyone thinks, most parts of Nigeria are safe. But there is a need for the government to do the needful in terms of addressing our security challenges. Most of the security challenges we face in Nigeria are in the northern parts of Nigeria and the South-East. So, it is up to the government to do something differently to address this.

The security agencies don’t seem to be doing too well, and trillions are being spent to tackle insecurity

They’re doing their best, but their best is not enough in the sense that people are still being massacred and killed every day, and people are still being kidnapped. So, they need to stand up to do what is right and end this banditry and terrorism, and the government should supply equipment and the necessary welfare for our military and the police to be stronger. 

What do you see when you look at 2027?

Well, Nigeria will always overcome its challenges. This is a country that each time it’s been predicted to come to an end, our resilient spirit has overcome. My  call is that there should be free, fair, and credible elections. And Nigerians and political elites should know that the interests of the country should come first before their own personal political interests, because if there is no country, there will be no political ambitions.

Quote

If there is any region that should talk of marginalisation, I think it should be the southeastern part of Nigeria, which has been systematically marginalised under Buhari up to the present date.

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